Episode 5: Exploring the Castro Verde Case Study

00:00:00: Hello and welcome to the fifth episode of European Land Use Talks, a mini podcast series of The Horizon Europe Project Europe Land.

00:00:07: We're happy you are here!

00:00:09: Here we talk about anything land use in biodiversity related whilst sharing our project progress.

00:00:15: My name is Megan Curling And I'm the communications manager for the project from Hamburg University at Applied Sciences in Germany.

00:00:33: In episode one of this podcast, you learn all about the framework and goals A researcher in the Center for Function Ecology, Science For People In The Planet at the University of Coimbra in Portugal.

00:01:06: His team is a valuable part of the biodiversity and climate change adaptation aims of our consortium.

00:01:12: but that's enough from me.

00:01:13: let's hear from Miguel.

00:01:16: So my name is Mial Moreira.

00:01:18: I'm an assistant researcher At the center for functional ecology in the university of Coimbra.

00:01:24: We are part of life sciences department Has been able to research center.

00:01:31: We work in ecology, so we're working the process of ecology.

00:01:36: But I also have a lot of research groups and labs within the center because it's very broad topic.

00:01:45: So for this group Forum for Agricological Studies and Transitions which as its name explicitly mentions It's a quite recent group that was created within the research center.

00:02:06: That acts straight into the agroecological transition, so in this... In the need we have to do these agro-ecological transitions among especially of course Portugal.

00:02:22: although we are an international group We don't act only in Portugal.

00:02:28: Okay, so we and we work basically...we have a lot of international projects like Europa Horizon Projects.

00:02:39: that's also national project but mostly would have international projects.

00:02:42: And this is really the agro-ecological transition Is our main topic.

00:02:48: very cool.

00:02:49: So knowing that and knowing you're a part of the Center for Functional Ecology, what role do your team play within the framework of Europe Land?

00:02:58: One of my specialties or one of my fields is jazz.

00:03:05: I work in landscape ecology since even before my PhD.

00:03:12: so Also in that field, more into the integration of... In this case fresh water.

00:03:21: My specialization is curious but I'm not specialized in this agroecological.

00:03:27: so my specialization really ecology off freshwater systems.

00:03:32: and then i came to the University of Quimbra More than five years ago to do my postdoc And one already starting introduce the topic of our case study in Europe lands.

00:03:50: My postdoc was over a project that was centered on the biosphere reserves for Portugal, so this Inesco designation.

00:03:57: So I had some experience before with some biosphere reserves including the Castro Verde which is our case studies in Europe land Besides me, the rest of the team.

00:04:14: So my field of specialization is ecological modeling let's say based on mainly spatial modeling and are my colleagues.

00:04:26: we have also two colleagues that I working in another group.

00:04:30: it called B Wild Lab.

00:04:33: they work mostly with fauna but mammal fauna okay?

00:04:39: They're working and also in the human interactions, human wildlife interactions.

00:04:43: They are really focused on that.

00:04:47: but all of us including our coordinator Professor Ilana we started to develop a very integrated and participatory action research with this kind of integration of the stakeholders.

00:05:00: so when particularly on these projects We were working in the advisory reserves project, where we went to all of them.

00:05:13: We developed a lot of participatory activities and workshops with local stakeholders.

00:05:20: so bringing these people together into management and decision making especially because they are conservation of natural values the notion of ecosystem services, which is other topic that we are all centering.

00:05:41: We're quite experts in the ecosystem service assessment and follow-up.

00:05:48: So how did... You mentioned your team was doing work on lots different biosphere reserves?

00:05:55: How did Castro Verde become kind landed in Europe land as one of our case studies.

00:06:02: Yeah, so that was a quite easy decision because when we entered the consortium over Europland and when we were proposed to have a case study immediately we thought that Castor Verde would be... We felt like a bias-free reserve is an option.

00:06:24: also there are already other bias free reserves as case studies on this project and for as it would make all the sense.

00:06:32: And Castro Verdo because of its uniqueness, so since we have...and also our coordinator Professor Elena she has been working in Castro Verde for more than thirty years So we had a very straight relation with this land, with these territories.

00:06:48: Also there is one particularity that's one of the oldest natural conservation NGOs has one, let's say when their headquarters are in Lisbon but they have a permanent team in Castro Verde for the conservation of this land.

00:07:08: So and Professor Ilene she was coordinator on these teams some decades ago so we always had close relation with his territory.

00:07:24: um, due to its particularities that I will develop further now in our talk.

00:07:30: Sure yeah.

00:07:30: so i would love to hear more about what makes Castro Verde is so unique and kind of what it brings as a case study on what we can learn from it?

00:07:39: Yeah

00:07:40: definitely!

00:07:41: It's...it's a fantastic case study due tue-due to each natural components do to which natural uh..particularities.

00:07:51: So Castro Verdes Portugal, so we thought not in the coastal areas.

00:07:57: So it's still around one hundred kilometers away from south coasts.

00:08:05: It is an inland area and a very dry area already.

00:08:12: that area of Portugal where its very dry landscape.

00:08:17: The typical yellow-brown orange landscape when you look to It's unique also.

00:08:29: Its main component is the typical agroforestry from Portugal and Spain, also other countries in the Mediterranean basin have but in Portugal they are highlighted this region which it called Montado.

00:08:48: that has as in Spanish a typical Quercus species.

00:08:57: So it's an agro-pastoral system.

00:08:59: We are talking about agroforestry that includes a pastoral system, so grasslands and cattle but in very extensive way.

00:09:12: we're not talking of the very intensive amount of livestock.

00:09:19: And then we are talking about one region that is... It became during centuries, so it was shaped by this human interaction between these extensive practices and the natural environment which is very harsh especially in summer.

00:09:37: In summer its always over forty degrees.

00:09:41: Yeah!

00:09:41: Its' very dry, doesn't rain almost there.

00:09:50: Now it's changing with climate change.

00:09:51: We will talk about this later, but so before... It always had a very short period of rain.

00:09:58: now its getting worse.

00:10:00: we'll get into detail later.

00:10:05: and the type of ecosystems that are there is called Pseudo-Steep.

00:10:10: So Steep is typical from North Africa.

00:10:16: The steep areas.

00:10:19: You only see a bit of grass, that very extent you almost don't see trees.

00:10:25: Here it's a pseudo-steep and some trees are not so dry as the African ones.

00:10:30: but few bird species started to migrate from Africa into this region... ...to Britain.

00:10:41: So It became an important area for specific inferences Very particular bird species to breed.

00:10:50: And this gave very important, let's say... It has a huge importance in these areas because it is the only region between Portugal and Spain.

00:11:06: The only region south of Europe where these birdspecies come from from Africa during their migration period, and they breed there.

00:11:17: So it's extremely important for the conservation of these species.

00:11:21: but I will go into detail about this.

00:11:24: Yeah so that already sounds fascinating.

00:11:27: um... And you kind of hinted at the way climate change has impacted this area?

00:11:35: kind of more specifics about that.

00:11:36: You mentioned differences in rain patterns and continued rising temperatures, just what impact does it have not only on this bird species but the ecosystem?

00:11:48: The main influence is because we are talking... It's a semi-natural ecosystem mainly maintained by human interactions.

00:12:01: We are talking about the region of Castro Verde, more.

00:12:04: around ninety percent of this region is an extensive grassland so it's fully managed.

00:12:11: It's extensively managed by human and then in the serial areas have to follow a type of agricultural practices that I call the rotational practices which is a rotation always between fallow lands some cereal planting plantations.

00:12:34: So in this case, and these were kept in the region during centuries so during centuries since... Since this region is so unproductive the soils are very cool because it's so dry in summer that their organic matter is very low or even almost non-existent can survive there, so it can be produced.

00:13:04: And the grasslands have various... Also these species that exist on the grassland are only species local from this region because they're so harsh in some conditions where a few species survived and adapted to them.

00:13:27: What happened is that and now we do replant.

00:13:31: We have been in contact with stakeholders, and with farmers from this region... ...we've already been there before as I mentioned on the other project but now we target some interviews or surveys regarding these issues.

00:13:54: issue that was the rise and then all everyone mentioned, even less ranked.

00:14:05: And before usually they had a period of rank where it would go between November-March-April.

00:14:15: so during this period everything was adapted to this.

00:14:19: what happens now is Sometimes they have huge periods within this large period.

00:14:26: They do not rain at all, sometimes it rains much less or another thing that happens particularly these years.

00:14:37: so we are in twenty-twenty six which was already phenomena from climate change of the called extreme events.

00:14:46: So what happened is there were floods And this region is also not adapted to flints.

00:14:52: Yeah,

00:14:53: of course so and which completely destroys the sowing season.

00:14:59: So they had huge problems This year for the yearly cultivation for the early plantation.

00:15:08: They could not do as we were doing before.

00:15:12: in the last ten or fifteen years The production even decreased and they are struggling, suffering with less amount of water.

00:15:26: And also the instability on.

00:15:28: sometimes it rains a lot in November then does it rain December?

00:15:32: Then again more or much less than usual winter.

00:15:38: what happened now was... The period started to be very unpredictable much less rain in terms of amount and then suddenly this year it was a huge flood.

00:15:53: We had a huge storm in Portugal, that region of Portugal wasn't even the worst but yeah.

00:16:03: so what happened now is... This also has implications for the conservation of these species.

00:16:09: Also there's this armonization let say between keeping this landscape in a sustainable way for the conservation of these very important bird species has been also a challenge.

00:16:27: We can talk later about what these farmers and stakeholders would like to do.

00:16:36: Yeah, but mainly what the main issue in this region regarding climate change is this unpredictability of rain.

00:16:47: The quantity and even less rain... In terms of temperature they are used to very high temperatures already.

00:16:54: What's happening now?

00:16:55: maybe we're having the heat waves that were having Portugal getting longer So that also affects sometimes not in this region is not at least for now, it's not the main problem.

00:17:10: But to these duration of the heat waves is definitely becoming or maybe can be a issue?

00:17:19: Sure

00:17:20: and

00:17:21: all of that is obviously very challenging And I appreciate The amount effort your team has put into continuing to engage the community highlighting the power of participatory research, which obviously is very cornerstone value of The Europe Land Project.

00:17:38: And so I would definitely be interested to hear more about what people who are most impacted by all this uncertainty and differentiating whether have say it in kind those conversations produced next steps for future planning.

00:17:56: Sure.

00:17:58: Also, thanks to the implementation of NGO, the environmental NGO they had a reference in Portugal and also this is even another extra that why it's so interesting as such an interesting case study in Portugal?

00:18:18: because thanks to these NGOs to the people that really started to care about conservation of the landscape and biodiversity.

00:18:29: The very unique diversity in this landscape more than thirty years ago, so early nineties, nineteen ninety-five if I'm not mistaken they created what is called a zonal program.

00:18:40: The Zonal Program was basically voluntary based programs farmers could apply for.

00:18:47: that would be subsidized If they would take in consideration some measures regarding what they were cultivating and where, taking into consideration the periods of nesting or breeding these species.

00:19:03: How does that impact the species of birds you've mentioned being in this region?

00:19:07: During for instance one very important species there – the great boosters They were not sowing, so part of the area they weren't sowing because these birds nest all the grass.

00:19:26: So if they were cultivating it would happen unfortunately but at least and started to have this program...so they got subsidies to not do any kind of plantation during the periods of nesting that species.

00:19:48: And this is fantastic, so since it's such an important area for their production and conservation of these species... This was really interesting!

00:20:01: Even before, the common agricultural policy also started bringing the agri-environmental measures also around this period, so they integrated these disonal programs within them.

00:20:18: And then even prior to the Natura-II implementation and with the Natury-II implementations which was later on, it's in year ninety eight or ninety nine... They could introduce this as one of the priorities for that region and how they created a special protection area there.

00:20:37: This area is integrated within the Natura-II Area, but in the bird's directive so... And it includes around the eighty five percent of the area of Castro Verde.

00:20:48: So you can imagine how important this area specifically for these group species that breed and need this area for their survival, some of them to further reproduction.

00:21:15: With the evolution when they started with a pillar two subsidies

00:21:20: etc.,

00:21:20: so measures have been developing started to have benefits from that.

00:21:31: So what is the situation today?

00:21:32: Because we interviewed them, We were in contact with them recently.

00:21:37: The measures are outdated so it doesn't make... Nowadays some measures a bit general Do not represent and do not... We interviewed one professor One local university that he's doing a lot of research, coordinating the team.

00:22:01: He told us it doesn't make sense.

00:22:03: and there is one clear very simple example if we have one farmer talking about large farms or huge farms And the farmers only have the rights to subsidies if they implement in their whole area.

00:22:23: So CAP does not... If a farmer wants to divide, so this is a limitation okay?

00:22:31: What did they tell us about this?

00:22:33: The CAP.

00:22:34: and now we are talking about the post- Twenty-Twenty-Seven CAP which will change.

00:22:40: We hope that it will take into account these very specific measures that are needed per area.

00:22:53: We hope it will be taken into account from twenty-twenty seven on.

00:23:00: and because the farmers really need this, also mainly the farmers have a lot of constraints especially for farmers within the special protection areas in Natura two thousands.

00:23:14: I'd love to know more about how evolving policy has affected the region.

00:23:18: It's... The policy, of course for nature conservation and then natural values conservation in this region is fundamental but it's very difficult for a farmer if than the farmer also with all these climate change impacts that they are having.

00:23:34: They're having less production there have been less economical viability.

00:23:38: so one thing just end them.

00:23:40: to finalize what happened We recently published a study, also on behalf of within the Europlanned project.

00:23:56: And we did an analysis over the last thirty years using Castrover and... Also used interviews that were done in the Europlane project.

00:24:13: We understood that, so the farmers need urgently these measures are adapted and changed.

00:24:26: Absolutely!

00:24:27: And what they're doing now?

00:24:29: They are changing the typology of their land use to have more benefits.

00:24:35: So mostly most areas.

00:24:37: one thing we concluded was in last thirty years There was a huge area of agroforestry, this typical montado.

00:24:47: But then they started changing it to grassland.

00:24:50: Why?

00:24:50: Because most economically is more viable and more profitable for them And in terms of conservation these may not be so although... They also have limited number of livestock heads But of course it's with time, so everything is depending on the subsidy schemes.

00:25:18: So CAP is the main driver for land use and landscape management in this region.

00:25:27: Awesome!

00:25:28: I appreciate all that work.

00:25:31: your team has done the summarizing thing.

00:25:37: as we look towards the final year of The Europe Land Project and knowing that, you know, Castro Verde will continue to exist after your project.

00:25:45: I am curious if there's any conclusions.

00:25:54: When you're working in a project that's focused on a very diverse landscape across an entire continent and an entire region, what are the lessons we're learning from this specific case study?

00:26:05: That you can either apply or come up with creative solutions looking towards a much larger land-use landscape.

00:26:14: Definitely!

00:26:15: Europlanned gave us opportunity to continue of course as mentioned.

00:26:19: so we have been working there particularly our coordinator Professor Delena.

00:26:24: So this is an ongoing work since already some decades, and we are still in contact with the NGO.

00:26:32: One particularity that I didn't mention was at the NGO they even got funds also from life projects so they could get money to buy land there.

00:26:44: They're basically doing management of the land There And it's fantastic.

00:26:52: I have been there also, i've done some work in the past and it's really amazing what that worked out.

00:27:03: It is called The League for the Protection of Nature of Portugal.

00:27:12: so this European brought us a chance on continuing to to do really work there, growing their being in contact with especially the farmers.

00:27:24: Hearing them because they need... So this stakeholder engagement is essential nowadays and more we realize that what these people most of times feel are just needs someone to be heard.

00:27:49: And I think the aeroplanes had an amazing effect on that, has an amazing purpose to bring and then...I remember our coordinator Francisca and Michaela are participating in these discussions in Brussels for the voices of the farmers, like bringing farmers to discussion.

00:28:18: For discussions on new caps.

00:28:20: so this is post- Twenty-Twenty seven cap and... This exactly also what we are doing in Castrovert.

00:28:29: So you mentioned yes We're now at last year Of these fantastic projects.

00:28:35: It's a pity that it has to finish let say but I'm pretty sure this work will we will prevail and it would be highly valuable, especially for the people of this region.

00:28:52: I mean in these cases of our case study but sure most of them are from Europe until the end of project.

00:28:59: We're going again to Castro Verde so We want to integrate and hear more from other people.

00:29:07: And what do they really need, their needs?

00:29:13: What request for this new cap?

00:29:19: This is also a hot topic – it's the nature restoration regulation that just came out And it has a lot of measures.

00:29:29: The Portuguese one is already on COVID discussion and stuff to be implemented quite soon, so the highest number in Portugal for forests also makes sense because that it's the biggest land use in Portugal, but second is agricultural measures.

00:29:54: So we are talking about... The natural restoration regulation will also bring a lot of demand in Portugal particularly for agricultural areas and we're talking an area that is essentially agricultural.

00:30:16: So our goal until the end of the project of Aeroblands, we want to hear people... We are going there!

00:30:25: We want their needs and requests for the CAP and also support them on the new restoration regulation because it's very difficult for some people.

00:30:43: Like these people, they suffer a lot sometimes with all this... Not only the policies that have to follow.

00:30:54: And of course there are constraints coming from the policy but also now climate change and they feel lack in need for these policies to be adapted depending on the climate changes because the impact may have implications on the measures that they have to apply in, and so it's very important for them feel like someone is supporting them.

00:31:25: It's hearing them!

00:31:29: So yeah... That's our goal.

00:31:30: we are planning to go very soon until end of project And support these people.

00:31:39: also after this project We will be sure We have a very good relation, not only with the NGO that I mentioned but also this professor from the local university.

00:31:57: That we met.

00:31:59: it was another very good outcome for us and we didn't know about him And we met Tim thanks to these projects to the interviews and for sure we will be in touch with him.

00:32:14: Great, well it sounds like you have a very strong strategy going into this final year.

00:32:18: um...and I appreciate your touching on so many important points about uh..this landscape And i do think that's all We Have Time For but really appreciate You taking The time.

00:32:29: It is clear how passionate the work that you're doing and I really, really appreciate it.

00:32:34: It's a very interesting thing.